What happens when you die?
4 minute read
A friend in college had the words Faith is knowing God will. framed over her bed in her dorm room. I loved this quote so much (even though I was living more like faith is knowing I will drink way too many bevs this weekend), I put it in my Facebook “About Me” section my junior year of college.
(I’ll pause for us all to get over our nerd chills…)
Even sooo, I loved the quote then, and I still love it now!
In reading through Hebrews 11 this week, I found the scriptural foundation of this quote. I’m sure there are others, but this one made Faith is knowing God will ding in my brain:
Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see. Hebrews 11:1
I didn’t realize it until after finishing the chapter and scanning through my Bible’s notes, but Hebrews 11 is apparently known as “Faith’s Hall of Fame” among the Bible beater crowd – and for good reason! It says the words “by faith” over 20 times, and each time it gives a line or two about Old Testament heroes of the faith from Abel to Enoch to Noah, Moses and Abraham on through to Rahab and a general catchall including Samson, David, Samuel and all the prophets.
It’s basically the Cliff’s Notes of some Old Testament badmammajammas, and I’m here for it.
In verses 32-35a it gives a litany of successes of these faithful heroes including but not limited to their overthrow of kingdoms, rule with justice, shutting the mouths of lions, quenching flames of fire, escaping death, putting armies to flight, and women receiving loved ones back from death. It says “their weakness was turned to strength” which was a nice little wink from God in reflection of last week’s post, and it also mentions they received what God had promised them. (Remember this/look for the asterisk in a couple paragraphs*).
If this is the summary of success, the next chunk of verses 35b-38 is the other side of the story:
There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground. Hebrews 11:35b-38
Mmm. Fun!
I could take the rest of this post 1 of 2 ways, and since I’ve written on the promise of suffering about 11ty billion times, let’s go rogue with option 2.
This route requires looking at how the author (remember, we don’t know who it is but my money’s on Paul) wraps up Chapter 11.
So after verses 32-35a give the greatest hits of those who suffered in faith and saw some fruit this side of heaven, and after verses 35b-38 tell us of those who didn’t see the other side of their suffering come out quite as rosey on earth, verses 39-40 tell us what also DID and DID NOT happen to both sets:
All these people earned a good reputation because of their faith, yet none of them received all that God has promised. For God had something better in mind for us, so that they would not reach perfection without us. Hebrews 39-40
As I read this, I was grounded and encouraged by the reminder that all that really matters is a good reputation so you can be accepted into a good sorority.
Right mom? Hehe.
But reallyyyy, really - to have a good reputation as far as God is concerned is probably the most grounding goal ever, right? These people weren’t perfect, but BY FAITH, they earned a good reputation as followers of God. In suffering and in trials, they had faith. They knew God would deliver them either this side of heaven (group 32-35a) &/or eternally (group 35b-38). So even while their earthly rewards looked different materially speaking, they both earned good reputations as believers.
Next it mentions that none of them received all of what God had promised. *Remember up there where it said “they received what God had promised them”? So why does it say here that they didn’t receive ALL of it? If you’re tracking, that’s because we’re talking about Old Testament heroes of the faith, and at the point of their death, “God had something better in mind” a la JESUS and the New Covenant. I love semantics. The inclusion of the word all changed the meaning of the sentence!
I also sometimes don’t love semantics because of the next verse:
“For God had something better in mind [JESUS] for us [the Body of Christ], so that they [the heroes in the Faith Hall of Fame] would not reach perfection without us [the whole Body of Christ].”
I read this, and my wheels started turning… “without us” includes you and me because US means The Body of Christ… and as far as I can tell, I have not died, and I am currently living very far from perfection, so are these heroes just hanging out waiting for us until they get to reach perfection?
To me, this sounds like a great case for Purgatory, and I spiraled as I envisioned all of these HEROES of the faith just sitting in some holding cell because, you know, we’re not there yet, and it would be “rude” if they went on to perfection without us.
And then I started to get angry.
I dug through Revelation - specifically Rev 6 because that was the cross-reference in my Bible for Hebrews 11:39-40 - and this got me even angrier because whyyy does that book have to be so hard to understand?!
I know I believe that right when a believer dies, they’re immediately in the presence of Jesus, but I don’t know why I believe that? And then with this “perfection waiting” in Hebrews 11 and Revelation 6 making my head spin, I started sort of cry-yelling to (not at ;) Crawford:
Why the heck would we encourage people to know Jesus if it just means they’re sitting somewhere waiting for perfection? I know I believe we’re immediately with Jesus when we die, but like, this is sort of saying we’re not? If these heroes don’t reach perfection without us - the entire Body of Christ - what in the world are they doing up there? And if in Revelation 6:11 it talks about the souls who were martyred for God asking how long before God judges the world having to ‘rest a little longer’ until their brothers and sisters joined them then what in the world is actually happening?!!! I don’t wanna go up there and wait. I mean I do. I will. But really that sounds so hard and I’m discouraged and mad.
I know I just brain vomited to you, but I was mad. Confused. Angry! What are they waiting on?!
Because he’s the best, I have to mention that Crawford didn’t give me answers, but he did say in addition to other suggestions, “I think it’s awesome that you’re wrestling with this.”
If you know me, you know my competitive subconscious heard “wrestling” and replied with game on.
That said, I wasn’t totally sure what I was wrestling with? Rather than simply googling “What happens when you die?”, I was led to see what a pastor I really trust and admire named John Piper had to say about Purgatory in hopes it might give me some scriptural direction. It was an admittedly weird route to take, but it really helped redirect my wandering mind.
Here is the full 14 minute discussion with scriptural references and a very interesting quote from CS Lewis, but if you’re into bullet points here you go:
For believers who die before Christ’s return, we are immediately with Christ when we die, at which time we are made spiritually perfect because God cannot be in the presence of any sin. Our lives as believers are a walk in sanctification because of Christ’s blood, and while yes, we cannot enter into God’s presence with any remnant of sin, we don’t go into a holding place to be made clean. We are immediately with the Father because our souls are made eternally clean. See Phil 1:23; 2 Cor 5:6-9
For believers who live until Christ’s return, you’re immediately with Jesus and made both spiritually and physically perfect at the time of Christ’s resurrection.
At the time of Christ’s return, those who have already died and are already made spiritually perfect are then made physically perfect as well.
So where the text says, “so that they would not reach perfection without us” the Body of Christ - all believers! - will reach spiritual and physical perfection in Him TOGETHER at the time of Christ’s return. We’re not sitting in a holding place until Jesus comes back to make the new heaven and new earth. We’re not getting cleansed of our iniquities somewhere to be clean enough for God’s presence. Jesus’s blood already did that, and any lingering cleansing will automatically happen as we come into His presence!
I hope this didn’t scare you off or overwhelm you. My real intention is to show you I am not at all a theologian nor am l ho-humming through scripture fully understanding it and/or blindly accepting it all. Yes, there is an element of childlike faith needed to accept the things we really aren’t humanly able to grasp, but real faith walking comes through wrestling! Faith is knowing God will, and when you think maybe he won’t - ask the hard questions and wrestle with Him.
To anyone reading who is curious how to be accepted into this illusive club of “Believers” - that’s all you have to do. Believe. Accept the state of your sin, accept the fact that you can’t do anything on your own to cleanse it or run away from it (Romans 3:23). Accept the free gift of salvation given to YOU by the blood of Jesus on the cross and by his death, burial and resurrection (John 3:16). Believe that when you die, you’ll have a place with Him forever (2 Cor 5:6-8; Phil 1:22-24; John 14:2-4). Believe He’s coming back to make a new heaven and a new earth and ALL who believe in Him will join Him in victory and ALL who reject Him will suffer eternally (2 Peter 3:10-13; Rev 21:1-5). I know it’s heavy. It’s also beautiful and makes this life have purpose and meaning.
It’s not Jesus + Communion. It’s not Jesus + Baptism. It’s not Jesus + being a good person. It’s just JESUS! (John 14:6)
Closing with a tie back into Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see of Hebrews 11:1. The thing we hope for that faith gives us confidence in is our eternal home in heaven with Jesus and in His ultimate victory. Faith assures us He is real and He is working, even when — especially when, we cannot see it. I promise you there’s nothing better than Jesus. He’s there if you’ll just confess that you need Him, you want to know how to love Him, and that you believe He died for YOU and every single sin past, present and future!
Please, please email me or call me if you want to talk more about this. I know it’s a lot to swallow! I suggest reading through the book of John if you want a place to start. John 3:16 and John 14:6 are great foundational verses to start to dig into and around for deeper understanding :)
Thank you for getting this far! He is for you.
God, you give us everything. You even give us our Faith! Thank you for your promise that Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen and that it gives us assurance about things we cannot see. These things that you promise will happen are of eternal value. They are lasting promises stretching far beyond our immediate material desires. God your goodness knows now bounds, and I pray specifically for whoever is reading this to approach Your throne of grace with confidence because of what Jesus did for them. I pray they can ask you any hard questions they might be wrestling with or have the humility to hand over any hard circumstances they need to lay at the cross. Bless us as you help us seek your face this week! In Jesus’s holy name I pray, Amen.
Suggested Scripture this week:
Spend some time in Hebrews 11. In addition to a good reputation in God’s eyes, what are some other by products of living by faith? What stories of faith inspire you the most? Does having a good reputation with God mean more to you than having a good reputation with the world? Why or why not?